Lessons learned from dialouges with creationists:
1. There is no evidence for creationism (young-earth, old-earth or ID). For folks predisposed to see design, they see design. For folks who look into the science of nature, they see that explanations for how the world works requires no supernatural intervention (open invitation for any creationist to provide a counter-example – show your work).
2. Creationist sources invariably lie about, distort or omit important facts about how science works, and what scientists themselves say about their work in order to bolster their claims. Naïve creationist supporters roar in to the frey, armed with arguments form creationist web sites, only to be shown over and over again that they have their facts wrong. Invariably, the argument is pared down to how to read the Bible – almost always, they end up saying something like “I have the right interpretation, and those who don’t share it are going to hell.”
3. Truth takes a back seat to strategy. This is obviously a religious issue – creationists want their children to be able to hold on to their creationist beliefs while getting a public education. There are two main approaches here – withdraw from public school, like the Southern Baptists, or get schools to stop teaching science, as laid out in the DI’s Wedge Strategy.
4. The discussion cannot take place on the basis of facts. Creationists have no facts to back up their position (they are not even interpreting Genesis 1 literally, or they would be flat-earthers and geocentrists). They simply “know in their knower” that they are right, and that means that anyone who opposes them are tools of Satan.
5. This is not about materialism, or liberalism, or naturalism. Science makes no claims about the supernatural, and so far, no appeal to the supernatural is required to explain the world we live in. This may mean that the natural principles we’ve discovered are the methods by which God created the universe. It does not mean that science is opposed to religion – just that science does not deal with religion.
6. We do have real problems to deal with – but they are not the fault of evolution, and are not solved by believing that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth together, or that God spends His time poofing tails onto flagella.
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2 comments:
You say that you want dialog, but the way you speak of creationsist reminds me of how Goldstin always used to bash atheists.
Both of you make dialog impossible.
Perhaps this is what you really want? After all, you left the church because you couldn't handle it if people didn't see it your way.
Actually, I left over quite different issues. Most of the folks who actually spoke with me about my views on evolution at the church were quite positive.
I am happy to document my lessons. My hope is that these folks would see themselves in my comments and knock it off.
It seems to me that you are the one who is making dialogue impossible. I have written out my experiences. They are accurate reflections of my interactions with creationists. Dialogue is not impossible - but I have found creationists for the most part unwilling.
You're welcome to be the exception. What would you like dialogue about?
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